Marmoth: As the amphi+hover factory didn't satisfy everybody and was seen as a try, here are some ideas (merged from several people) to define a new amphi/hover system. I also know that the [Movetypes] page exist, but this is a more general debate and i found it more readable to isolate the current question.

Principles

  • Amphi units are kbots (not all kbots are amphi)
  • Hover units are vehicles (not all vehicles are hover)
  • Half of amphi kbots are T1, the other half T2. Same for hover veh. Saktoth: No, you should be able to get the full suite of amphs from one fac, rather than splitting all the bits you want over to facs- and adding a full suite of amph/hovers to both facs would be excessive, we might as well give them their own facs. KR: It should be noted though that none of the facs give you a full suite of anything as-is (except maybe Logos T1 vech and sea).
  • There is a third kbot factory that must be built underwater. That factory can builds the full set of amphi kbots. Saktoth: Not a fan of units split over several facs. If we do this we might as well make it a distinct fac and not put the amphs in the other facs at all.
  • There is a third vehicule factory that must be built on water. That factory can build the full set of hover vehicles. Saktoth: Ditto.
  • There should be between 4 and 6 units in each set. Saktoth: A full suite is all that matters, numbers are unimportant- we should have as many as we need, no more than we need).
  • Each of amphi and hover unit sets should include one construction unit.

Individual units

Most of what i write are just examples, i didn't think too much about individual units. Feel free to add some.

Arm amphi kbots

  • Builder. T2 lab and underwater factory.
  • Minelayer. T1 lab and underwater factory. Saktoth: Doesnt need mines, minelayers might even be abolished.
  • Torpedo sonar Kbot. T2 lab and underwater factory. Saktoth: Torps and sonar should be on different units.
  • Raider kbot. T1 lab and underwater factory. Saktoth: Propper raiders can be problematic as amphs (too fast/effective). Whats the meaningful difference from the Peewee?
  • Assault kbot.
  • Radar AA kbot.

Arm hover vehicles

  • Builder
  • Tank
  • AA
  • Scout
  • Heavy tank Saktoth: 'Missile'? Whats its role?
  • Missile Saktoth: Ditto.

Core amphi kbots

  • Pinchy amphi builder. Built in T1 kbot factory and underwater one. Saktoth: But arm gets t2 amph builder? Asymetry of this kind isnt that good.
  • Crawling bomb. Saktoth: Amph bombs are generally a no-no.
  • Assault.
  • Missile. Saktoth: Role?
  • Radar AA.
  • Depth charge sonar.

Core hover vehicles

  • Builder
  • *

Other ideas

Arm could have amphi veh and hover kbots. Some amphis should be able to fight underwater.

Saktoths ideas

Ideally, id like the following:

  1. Amphibs/Hovers have an at least minimally diverse set of unit options.
  2. Amphibs/Hovers are useful towards some end even on land, so they are not just purely water units.
    1. To this end, Hovers are fast but have sub-vehicle slope tolerance. This probably wont work due to map designers. ._. Possibly lua/cob in a slow-down on any kind of slope, but still have the ability to go up relatively steep slopes (slowly)? Perhaps hovers have 'sprint' (though do we really want to add new W3 style micro specials?)
      • Evil4Zerggin: I wrote an engine patch (which Kloot committed) that allows us to define slopeMod mod-side. This will allow us to control how strongly a unit's speed is affected by slopes and letting the pathfinding engine know at the same time; we probably don't need the fine control of Lua/COB as far as this goes. As far as special abilities go, if they proliferate, next thing you know there will be autocast widgets, which could be a good or bad thing (I personally hate having to activate special abilities manually).
    2. Amphibs do something? Perhaps just co-opt some current land units? Original idea was that Amphs were AT. KR: +1 to making existing land units amphib.
  3. Amphibs/Hovers are in different facs, because they fight on totally different domains.
  4. Amphibs have some way to fight underwater! This is really important to avoid constructor wars and other silliness.
    • KR: We may need to think of some weapontypes for this - torpedoes, torpedoes and more torpedoes is just boring. Vibration beam projectors? Cavitation bombs?
    • Evil4Zerggin: I had an idea where we would make certain types of weapons be able to shoot underwater; see SeaChange#MoreWaterWeapons.

Proposed Amph Setup

T1 kbot has amphs, buildable on water.

Arm

  • Jethro, with torpedo, as a general support unit.
  • Some other unit or two, existing or new (perhaps an arm assault unit, generalist), land combat only.
  • Radar bot (Sonar).

This can be copied to core, or split the roles up differently:

Core

  • Torpedo/Land combat unit.
  • AA/Land skirm.
  • Radar bot (Sonar).